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CONSERVATION COMMISSION
TOWN OF GROVELAND
183 MAIN STREET
GROVELAND, MA 01834
(978) 374-1863 FAX (978) 372-6105
March 16, 2005
Present: M. Dempsey, S. Benanti, C. McKee, T. Schaefer, J. Termini, T. Grim
Meeting opened 7:15 pm
ConCom Business: C. McKee will call the ZBA , Jim Dole re: subdivision.
ConCom Business: M. Dempsey made a motion that ConCom accept the minutes as submitted for March 2, 2005. C. McKee 2nd. All in favor. Unanimous.
ConCom Business: re: Marion Ave - Skip Senter was supposed to be here tonight to detail their work at Marion Ave. T. Schaefer said he spoke with Skip Senter yesterday and mentioned the meeting and that Skip (Irwin) said he was not aware of it. T. Schaefer told him he would meet with the ConCom members tonight and inform him tomorrow morning of the next course of action. T. Schaefer went to the site and said everything is very neat. T. Schaefer went every day and they cleaned it up. He said the problem is the slope. They put hay on the slope, the lower part is fine, they put hay on the upper part but he does not feel it will stop anything from running down if it rains. He said the beginning of the driveway on Lot 2. They only way they can
build the wall, will require them to constantly drive across Lot 2 to bring blocks and stone up or to dig. T. Grim said unless they stabilize the roadway, it will continue to erode. T. Schaefer notice last night that a dump truck had dumped something, and there were 8” deep ruts.
C. McKee asked how long they have been working there. T. Schaefer said 2 weeks. C. McKee asked why someone is not monitoring the site. P. Seekamp and Leah Basbanes are monitoring the site. M. Dempsey said ConCom specified that and the end of this two week period, they were to come here and give a personal report - and they did not show up tonight. T. Schaefer called them Tuesday and told them they’re still driving over “no build” zone. T. Grim said it’s not a “no disturb” zone, but if it’s not stabilized, then that’s as bad as construction. T. Grim suggested going there on Saturday and meet with their engineer because they need an extension on the waiver too. T. Schaefer will talk to him tomorrow morning and
tell him he needs to put rip rap on the road, something bigger than the gravel that’s there and then put up silt fences. T. Schaefer made a motion talk to him (Skip Senter) tomorrow morning, or to call him if he’s not there, and tell him he needs to stabilize the slope with 1 or 2 or 3 silt fences and hay bales, so nothing will come over the top of the rocks or the side of the wall he built, and put something more permanent, ie larger stone size on the roadway to make sure that it doesn’t get washed away, and that he cannot drive the excavator if it’s not stabilized. The work is to completed by end of the day of Friday. M. Dempsey 2nd T. Grim made a amendment to the motion to include that he (S. Senter) arrange for his engineer to meet with us (T. Grim/T. Schaefer) on Saturday morning to review the site. M. Dempsey 2nd in favor of amended motion. All in favor. Unanimous.
C. McKee asked that T. Schaefer not only speak with him verbally, but to put it in writing as well. All in favor for complete motion. Unanimous.
NOIs Lot 1A, 1B, 1C Stonebridge Road (Center Place) Continued
Present: Thomas Neve, Neve-Morin Group
Hearing opened 7:45 pm.
T. Neve brought a map showing the three lots on left hand side of the Center Place property. Lot 1 is 3.5 acres in size. He recently subdivided it into 3 lots. He said the Town has recently amended its zoning bylaw to allow for an in-law apartment in dwellings that are in single-family residential zones. He proposes to build larger footprint, but smaller houses. Proposing to disturb 14,760 sq. ft of land on a lot, and the other, they would disturb 13,800 sq. ft. The total of Lots 1A, 1B and 1C, is 3.5 acres, they plan to disturb 1.04 acre. He plans to leave undisturbed 2.5 acres (undisturbed 70% of land area - both wetlands and uplands). Propose project would be to build 2 homes where one was proposed 1A and 1B and donate 1C to the town. If he gifts Lot 1C, they’ll only be altering 18% of land area. He said they are still maintaining the 25 ft. no-cut. He’s asking for a reduction in the 75’ no-build zone. The smallest distance is 34’.
C. McKee asked him if there was any way to keep it 50’ away? T. Neve said they can’t. C. McKee asked him the distance between the two homes? T. Neve said 35’. He showed the property line divisions on the map. T. Neve said it’s reasonably flat land, it’s not graded and well drained and not prone to erosion or sediment moving. C. McKee said she is more concerned with what could happen after he leaves ie people using chemicals, being so close to a stream, the animal habitat with people living 25’ away, we know that people are going to cut a mow. C. McKee said it’s more of an impact after the construction. She said it will not be an undisturbed area, unless he puts a wall along the stream. T. Neve said he plans on putting in
a boulder wall 200’ long. It will be a permanent boundary. He said the site plan goes in deed, and he said they mark it as being the ultimate limit clearing. It gets recorded with the deed. T. Grim said that people will do it anyway. T. Grim said the problem is he’s putting people in the position where he’s telling them ’you can’t do anything 10’ outside of your house because of these restrictions‘. T. Grim said people will clear cut, put a baseball field in the back, etc. T. Neve said they’ll have to come and talk to ConCom. T. Grim said people won’t do that and he knows it. T. Neve said there’s laws, they should abide by the law, you police it, you have an agent. T. Grim said we don’t have an agent. T. Neve said ConCom should get an agent and that ConCom can’t say no to a reasonable job if you don’t have mechanisms of
enforcing your regulations. C. McKee said let’s see how reasonable this job is going to be. What comes first the house or the wall, (along the 25’ no disturb zone)? T. Neve said the wall would come first. J. Termini said he’d need signage and markers. T. Neve said he will guarantee the marked limit will be visible, obvious, he will walk it with the people who are buying it, in some towns they have tags to put on trees with the Conservation Agent and the person there before occupancy permit is signed.
C. McKee said going back to the actual construction, what is the distance from the corner (shown on map) to the no-disturb zone? T. Neve said 9‘ft. C. McKee asked if it’s reasonable to assume that he can do a foundation and all the work that’s required with only 9’? T. Neve said yes. He said he usually has 10‘ ft for a full foundation. He said the garage is a 4’ excavation with backhoe, and the dirt is taken out, they pour a footing, they pour a 4‘ft. wall, and then put the dirt back in (described using map). C. McKee asked him, what about the driveway work because he’s right up against 25? T. Neve said he’s okay with being right up against that barrier because there‘s no room in between. He said he worries more
about leaving 10‘ ft. of trees between the driveway and the no-cut zone, because now, it‘s inviting. (using map, he showed where the wall will be, 2‘ ft off the wall will be the paved driveway, and 2‘ ft. off the stone walls are woods) He said there is no place to move. There’s no room for a lawn there or to expand your yard or driveway. C. McKee asked if any current builders express an interest yet? T. Neve said they’re not on market yet. C. McKee said then he has no idea who will be building these homes yet? T. Neve said he may build there. C. McKee asked what is his plan for moving forward should the Commission decides against because we feel it‘s going to have too much of an impact and we would have to have give you a waiver from our bylaw. T. Neve said he’s hoping to convince ConCom that a waiver to the bylaw would be good for two reasons: 1) it doesn’t
derogate from the intent which is that this plan is sensitive to the pollution portion of any project that lesser distance doesn‘t increase the chances of the wetland being altered. We would have to provide substantial erosion control. 2) He thinks ConCom shouldn’t waive any part of their regulations unless the applicant demonstrates that there is a substantial public interest.
T. Neve said the Planning Board sent him to Open Space Committee before they made their recommendation, which he did. He said the Open Space Committee is in favor of this and asked him to add the access (to the landlocked upland). He said he then went back to the Planning Board and reported what the Open Space Committee indicated, and then they voted to recommend to the ConCom to seriously consider granting the waviers based on that. C. McKee asked if we received a recommendation from the Open Space Committee? M. Dempsey said no. He said the Planning board is not concerned about open space and would be surprised if they knew about any open space up there. Secondly, one of the members was in here a few weeks ago, March 2nd, and he was very upset with way things were
going up there. He asked ConCom to comment about our experience with you folks and the builders that are building there. T. Neve asked if it was Bob O’Hanley? M. Dempsey said yes. He wanted to know what problems ConCom has experienced. B. O’Hanley told M. Dempsey that at the time, the Planning Board was looking into some action to prevent further problems. M. Dempsey said he’s surprised by what T. Neve is saying, and does not want it entered in as evidence why we should vote for this thing because ConCom needs to see it in writing from the Planning Board based on experience from them. T. Neve said he will get it in writing. C. McKee said we should have recommendations from both Boards that this would be good for the town.
T. Neve said he never met Mr. Gupthill, but spoke to him on the phone and sent him some plans. T. Neve asked him if he wanted him to come to any of his meetings. Mr. Gupthill said no, but to send him the plans, he would get some board members together, look at the site and call him back. T. Neve said Mr. Gupthill called back after they went to the site and said it was a good idea, but wanted a dry spot to get across. T. Neve said he sent him a new plan. He said Mr. Gupthill asked him to encumber Lot 1B with an easement and T. Neve put it on the plan. T. Neve said he did all this work before he brought the plan to the Planning Board to get a signed approval. That’s when they took their certified vote, that was a unanimous recommendation that they were in support
of this project. T. Neve said he will ask them to produce it in writing.
C. McKee asked if ConCom wants that (crossing) to happen with the wildlife habitat that’s there? Do we want people hiking over the stream all the time, and kids with their ATVs? C. McKee said ConCom should wait for letters of recommendation before we make a decision. T. Neve said he will get the minutes of the Planning Board meeting. He said he had them vote into the records and got a unanimous vote. T. Neve asked if the members were not inclined to approve the hearing, then let’s just close the hearing. If you’re inclined to approve this, if I show you that the Open Space Committee thought it was a good idea and that the Planning Board voted unanimously to recommend it, would you be inclined to approve it? C. McKee said she would not, personally. T.
Grim said for those two houses, it puts some pretty heavy restrictions on the use for the people who will be buying that and the people they hope to sell it to years down the line. It puts the onus on us to enforce any sort of incursions into the no-cut zones. It wouldn’t necessarily be that way if there was one house in the middle and they had a little room to cut down some trees and put a backyard in. T. Grim said he was inclined against it also. T. Schaefer said he had issues if the Planning Board really wanted an in-law, it would have to be put in the deed. He doesn’t like the fact that there’s three lots and that constantly said that that wasn’t going to be given. We’re actually voting on three lots. T. Neve said he is asking for ConCom to vote on the three Orders of Conditions with the proviso that this lot (1C) never be developed, and be deeded to the town. These be developed as shown on the
plan, plus whatever special conditions you adopt. T. Schaefer said he likes the idea that they want to provide affordable housing for extended families, but he said he truly does not believe that that would be the reality because it will be very expensive. Frankly, if I paid that price for a home and have a backyard that’s only 5’, wait a few years ‘til things die down, and then start cutting. T. Grim said people have done that in the Merrimack River. Houses were built near the river, there was a tree buffer, the trees are all gone. T. Neve asked if ConCom needed any more information before closing the hearing. C. McKee said she feels she has all the information she needs to issue a determination. M. Dempsey said he would like to see a proposed statement or text, that the ConCom would use in the orders, and also what he plans to use in the deed restrictions to prevent people from further incursions beyond the walls.
How effective has that been in some of your other developments? T. Neve said it’s the first one he’s used it in. M. Dempsey asked then for the effectiveness when other developers have used it. T. Neve said he’s not sure anyone else has. T. Neve said he’s using them because the Planning Board asked him to develop a mechanism that would go on the title. M. Dempsey said whatever supporting documentation that T. Neve could give us might help - the actual text, etc. T. Neve said he would bring in the actual deed. Hearing continue until April 20th at 8pm.
C. McKee said this is the third time she’s asked them not to have equipment parked, after hours especially, that close to the buffer zone. T. Neve said they never got letter, but did receive an email saying ConCom was inclined to fine the contractor for putting the machine for two days in the buffer zone and the one day it took them to erect a prefabricated shed. C. McKee gave him a copy of what was mailed. T. Neve will have Greg follow up with C. McKee. Hearing closed at 8:31 pm
NOI 784 Salem St. Continued
Present: Carl Kazierski, Salem St.; Mark Tangreti, Salem St.; John Judd, Salem St.
Hearing opened 8:35 pm. J. Judd showed buffer lines using a map. He will submit the individual applications for the lots when they have the septic plans prepared and the whole site plan. Right now they are just looking at the drainage system. They went to the Planning Board and closed the hearing on it. He said it was reviewed by Cammet. They have voted to approve it, but have not received the written decision. They had the site walk and walked the line delineation. There is a natural depression where the cul de sac is proposed. J. Judd said there are several different BMPs in place to minimize any chance or erosion, including that they are 50’ away from the wetland edge at closest point. One-third of the basin is in buffer zone.
J. Termini notified the applicant that they will need to post a bond or cash equivalent for work within the buffer zone (J. Termini pointed out on map 2), based on hard cost construction. M. Dempsey asked them to fund ConCom’s consultant to review the project as a whole and also storm water management before and after construction. M. Dempsey spoke with Mary Rimmer, who estimates that the cost of the review would $3,930. M. Dempsey had originally told J. Judd it would be approximately $2,000. The majority of cost is Mackenzie Engineering. J. Judd said they have six catch basins. Judd asked if there is an option? J. Judd said that Woody Cammet from Cammet Engineering has reviewed it. J. Termini asked if he was a third party? Yes. J. Termini
suggested piggy-backing on that for ConCom’s purposes. They suggested having Mary Rimmer come out on bi-weekly basis- periodic inspections. The ConCom members all agreed that that figure was unreasonable. M. Dempsey suggested seeing if M. Rimmer could work with Cammett, since Cammett already reviewed it.
C. McKee asked them when they propose to start work? J. Judd said they would like to start soon - this year. C. McKee said this will be a minimal bond. C. McKee asked what needs to be protected. A stream, BVW. T. Grim said the perennial stream was flowing in January. J. Judd described the erosion controls using the map. He said they wouldn’t have any runoff. As part of the maintenance plan they will have the streets swept. They have deep sump catch basins with 4’ sumps, they also have oil hoods. Rip rap, and 4 bay with stoned berm that would be trapped during construction. Also a sand pipe for silts to settle. They have very well-drained soil. C. Mckee asked him to show the erosion control line - he showed on map. She asked
what he is proposing to use. J. Judd said staked hay bales and silt fencing - a double line. It tested as coarse single grain sand and gravel mix. Perk rates - flew right through. J. Termini asked if it were city water. Yes, but not sewer. M. Dempsey said he will ask M. Rimmer to work with Cammett and potentially have everything we need at our next hearing and close and ready to go. J. Judd asked regarding the state changes in the buffer zone, will there be any effect on lots? M. Dempsey said the majority of the decision will come from ConCom’s bylaw. J. Termini asked them to bring an estimate of hard cost construction when they come back to the next meeting. M. Dempsey made a motion to continue the hearing until 8:00 pm on April 6th. T. Schaefer 2nd. All in favor. Unanimous. M. Dempsey will call M. Rimmer tomorrow and will ask M.Rimmer to then call J. Judd
regarding Cammett. Hearing closed 9:01pm.
ConCom Business - Veasey Park
It was suggested that ConCom meet with the Selectmen to explain our plans, what the commission is about, what ConCom is looking to accomplish, what our bylaw stands for, how we want to work with open space, how we want to manage our properties, make our mission statement clear to them, etc. S. Benanti was concerned about moving the office to Veasey Park. M. Dempsey said the problem with moving the office to Veasey and meeting at the Town Hall on Monday nights is that we’d need the files wherever we are and we wouldn‘t have the files handy. He said he’s uncomfortable with files here and sharing the room. Keeping the room and stuff here doesn’t accomplish security. T. Grim said as far as serving the community, it make sense to have signoffs here. M.
Dempsey said both the Fire Dept., and the electric department are not here. C. McKee said ConCom would be more effective if we had more room. She said we can’t even spread out a map like we used to. She said we need wall space. M. Dempsey said the goal would be to have an office up there and then to meet in one of the rooms for hearings. There’s potential for a small office right now, eventually a bigger one would be available. C. McKee asked what would be the worst thing about moving. M. Dempsey said being out of the loop, special town meetings, etc. T. Schaefer suggests acquiring the minutes for other board’s meetings. Discussion followed regarding the status of hiring a ConCom agent and L. Felch covering the secretarial duties, scheduling, etc., and posting available office hours.
J. Termini made a motion move our center of operations to Veasey Park as time and room permits under M. Dempsey’s leadership with the provision that the office space is acceptable to the majority of the commissioner members and L. Felch. T. Grim 2nd. Discussion followed regarding potential rooms as office space at Veasey. All in favor. Unanimous.
M. Dempsey made a motion to close the meeting at 10:07 pm. J. Termini 2nd Unanimous. 10:07 pm.
Next meeting April 6th.
Respectfully submitted,
Lori Felch
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