Conservation Commission Minutes 10/05/2005
CONSERVATION COMMISSION
TOWN OF GROVELAND
183 MAIN STREET
GROVELAND, MA 01834
(978) 374-1863 FAX (978) 372-6105
EMAIL: gconcomm@grovelandma.com
October 5, 2005
Present: M. Dempsey, J. Stewart, J. Termini, C. McKee
7:18 pm meeting opened
16 Pandora - GRDA
Present: Debra Baldini. Hearing opened at 7:18 pm. Debra Baldini submitted her paperwork. T. Grim did a site visit. Commissioners reviewed the septic plan. Old septic system will be emptied, crushed and filled per state law. M. Dempsey marked the plan where hay bales need to go, backed by silt fence (40’ at most from rear of house). She was told to seed immediately. T. Grim will do a site visit the day the work will begin and again when the work is done. Mrs. Baldini was told that the work needs to be completed before October 30, 2005. J. Termini made a motion that ConCom accept the plans as submitted with the exception of hay bales backed by silt fence material for 16 Pandora Drive, and that applicant/contractor contact Terry Grim for inspection of
the hay bales prior to construction. M. Dempsey 2nd. All in favor. Unanimous.
Al Couillard - Re: 94 B Main St./Savory Woods
Present: Al Couillard, Leah Basbanes. M. Dempsey did pre-construction meeting on Friday (9/30/05), and said everything looked in good shape. M. Dempsey collected the timetables and specified bond fee of $7,500 agreed with original applicant (Mark Lopez). Al Couillard requests to talk to about $7,500 bond, specifically, he’s looking to have it reduced. L. Basbanes submitted photos of site taken this morning. The are should be backside, seeded, stabilized, and mulched by next week. By that time, work within 25’ is done. J. Termini pointed out that ConCom gave a lot of relief from the original bond amount. M. Dempsey said the original was $25,000 which was then reduced to $7,500. J. Termini reminded them of the purpose of a bond, ie, a
catastrophic event such a rain, causing large sediment. If they can’t respond quick enough, ConCom has money to access to take care of it. J. Termini pointed out that the state recognized this property is a vernal pool and turtle property.
M. Dempsey made a motion that ConCom agree based on positive inspection to refund 50% of the bond money when the sloped area to the wetlands has been completed. And 50% when the 2 buildings within the 100’ buffer have been completed. J. Stewart 2nd. 1 yes, 3 opposed. Motion lost 3-1.
M. Dempsey made a motion that ConCom agree to refund the entire $7,500 bond (plus interest) upon receipt of a positive Certificate of Compliance on Buildings 6 through 9 (entails inspection and a positive agreement that the work has been completed). C. McKee 2nd All in favor. Motion passed. Unanimous. Continued to October 19th at 8:00 pm.
249 School Street - Septic System Replacement
Present: Robert Grasso, Professional Land services; Arthur Blasdell, Marie Blasdell.
Hearing opened 8:13 pm. No DEP number pending for $27.50 for riverfront. Septic system replacement for existing single family house within the 100’ buffer. Bob Grasso described the plan. He proposed staked hay bales during construction. J. Termini requested they be backed by silt fence. B. Grasso said the project will take only 3-4 days to install. J. Termini told him the work needed to be done before November 1, 2005. M. Dempsey made a motion that ConCom issue an Emergency Order with the same requirements listed of the erosion controls as in the NOI filing, however including the silt fence. J. Termini 2nd. All in favor. Unanimous. Hearing continued until October 19th 7:15 pm.
(integrity of BVW - restore not replace - trees that were there) restoration plan. Fill - test soil - make sure that there’s nothing harmful to wetlands. Plan should address trees. Need to research to see what native plants grow in that type of stream. Need to issue conditions.
166 Main Street NOI continued -
Present: John McComiskie, Richard B. Johnson, Mary Clisbee, John B. Barranco, Jonathan Moll
Hearing reopened 8:35. J. McComiskie filed an NOI was filed to clean up rear yard and within jurisdictional wetlands. M. Dempsey said for the public’s knowledge, the ConCom Board has reviewed the minutes thus far because of couple of ConCom members were not here last time. C. McKee and J. Termini are fully up-to-speed on it and have been by the site and understand the issues related to the site.
J. McComiskie submitted the rest of the green cards. Jonathan Moll said at the last hearing, there was discussion regarding the extent of the work. He brought photos he says gives a clear sense of the extent of the work. He put a photo array in front of the Commission. He said the first issue he wanted to address was the amount of fill brought to the site. He feels the amount was very significant, based upon piles in the pictures, based upon the depression of the movement of the topsoil. He said many tractor loads were brought to the site. He said one photo gives the sense of how high the soils that were pushed back were. He said the picture gives you the sense of the extent of clearing and also of the wetlands vegetation towards the rear. He said at the last hearing, there
was discussion regarding how the grades between the two properties differed. A photo shows the fence and the soil. He said the fence was pushed down in height because soil is coming across where no soil had previously come across. He said the photo shows were the soil was washed onto the driveway. He said the bottom line is that there was a significant amount of soils brought onto the site, that the grading has changed and the grading has negatively impacted upon his client’s property. He said he was told, and asked J. McComiskie to respond, that additional work was done at the rear of the site, since last hearing in terms of cutting or clearing. J. McComiskie said he cut the lawn and that he cut weeds down. M. Clisbee said what was cut down was actually the re-growth in the area north, this side of the fence. C. McKee asked if it was within 25’ of the stream? M. Clisbee said yes, and what has begun to re-grow has
been mowed down again since the last meeting, just in the last few days.
C. McKee said she was there when this whole thing began and reminded J. McComiskie of a couple of conversations they had. She said she was flabbergasted at what was done to the site, because when she initially spoke to J. McComiskie, the site was supposed to be cleaned. She said integrity of the 25’ buffer zone was completely and totally violated. She said that is a no-disturb zone, which means you don’t mow, you don’t go near it, you don’t touch it, you don’t do anything but look at it and say, “Man, that looks like crap, I wish I could fix it, but the law says I can’t.” J. McComiskie asked, “So, I should have left those engines and stuff out there?“ C. McKee said if there were trees, shrubs, skunk cabbage, none of that is to be
touched there. J. McComiskie said there was no skunk cabbage there. C. McKee said yes, there was skunk cabbage there because she also has pictures she took that day. J. McComiskie asked if she saw the tires and the barrels and the rest of the stuff? C. McKee said that was already gone. J. McComiskie said why was it cleaned out? Because they had to get in there to pull the stuff out of there. C. McKee said she agreed that everything had to be cleaned, whether there were tires, trucks, etc. She said she saw the property after all that had been removed and that he must remember the conversation that he had with her about all that fill where she said, “Don’t touch it, don’t do anything to it.“ She told him at that time to get an expert and have somebody come it. J. McComiskie said he did that. C. McKee said what she fails to understand is why, when she reads the report from Hancock,
there’s no restoration of no-disturb zone. J. McComiskie said yes, there is. C. McKee said, no, that’s replacing - not restoring.
J. McComiskie said he stopped what he was doing that day, like she asked him. He hired an engineer like she requested. He was asked to file, like he did, even though he had a note that was not good enough. He said ConCom walked the property three times before he went into it. Now he’s being told he didn’t do it right. C. McKee asked him what’s been done. J. McComiskie said he brought back to same grade all the dirt that‘s there. He said they’re talking 150’ up the stream, is where they’re getting water in their driveway. He said if they had not bulldozed the foundation for the house, the water would run property. But, they put that almost in the brook. C. McKee asked what is within 25’ of stream right now. J.
McComiskie said loam. C. McKee asked why then is no vegetation growing there? J. McComiskie said it is. He said first of all, we haven’t determined, other than the brook, is the border lines. He said he might have stopped 20 feet from the brook. (Too many talking at once here) M. Dempsey reminded them to talk in order, and if they want to speak, to address the Chairman, but that Mr. McComiskie was presently speaking. J. McComiskie said when he went out there this weekend, he thought it looked a little shabby down towards the end, he said he might have gone 15‘, he didn‘t take a tape measure out with him. He said took the lawnmower and mowed up from the brook appx 15-25’. He said the lawnmower broke, so he didn’t do along the fence. C. McKee asked if the area was marked? She asked if Mr. Hancock flagged the area? J. McComiskie said it’s the brook and the hay bales. He
said that’s what he understands is the (too many talking). J. McComiskie said, no, nobody requested that he do that. He did not do that. He said it’s only the second time he’s met C. McKee since this whole deal started. He said he’s called her home a couple of times. He said he’s under the impression he’s done everything he’s supposed to do, with the exception of planting trees because he doesn’t have running water. C. McKee said what she doesn’t understand is, typically when ConCom asks an expert to go in and look at a property, the first thing they do is flag. She said if we don’t have flags, we don’t have boundaries. J. McComiskie said he brought ConCom a whole portfolio including pictures showing the brook as a designated thing. M. Dempsey said, “That was a request based on the fact that we were at site and we found that there was work going on,
where what we believe was at least, within the 25’ no disturb zone. So, we told you to stop, which you did. We told you to hire a wetland scientist to give us a report about what you’ve done thus far. What we did then was issue an Emergency Order so that you could at least stop the biggest problems. That’s what that was. That was not anything to do with the process we’re here in today. We wouldn’t have done that at all if you had just come to us before doing the work and you had filed a Notice of Intent. J. McComiskie said, “No, no, no, that’s wrong.” M. Dempsey said, “ That report is based on an emergency situation. J. McComiskie said “The emergency situation was after the fact, because I came here three times. You walked it. Jim maybe went by a couple of times. Everybody knows the property. I explained to you that I was going to take all the old
crap, and all the stuff out of there, the engines, the tires, dead trees.” M. Dempsey said, “But, you didn’t explain that you were going to go in to the 25’ no disturb and dig a ditch.” J. McComiskie said, “I don’t know what a 25’ no-disturb zone is. This is what I’m learning about.” M. Dempsey said, “The failure and ignorance of the law is no excuse.“ J. McComiskie said, “I still didn’t go 25’, I didn’t to the edge of the brook, and that’s the wetlands.“
C. McKee said we need to issue an Order of Conditions. In order to have an Order of Conditions, we need to have the property delineated. If the property is not flagged, we can’t issue an OOC, because we do not know where the boundaries are.
J. McComiskie asked what a flag was and C. McKee explained that the wetlands scientist goes to the site, determines where the wetland boundaries are which are tagged and numbered, and transfers them onto a map. J. McComiskie said it’s a brook. That’s the edge of where everybody says it is. C. McKee said, “No, it isn’t. Skunk cabbage does not grow in dry areas. It can only grow in hydro areas. It has to be wet. We need to address this before it goes any further. The bottom line is that the property needs to be flagged and ConCom needs to write an Order of Conditions.” J. McComiskie asked the abutter is his property was flagged where wetlands were, etc. The abutter said, “We’re not here to discuss my property.” M. Dempsey said it’s normally done, but again, this was an emergency situation. We should be here for the first time. We shouldn’t be here looking at pictures of what was done. We should be looking at a map of what you’re going to do. J. McComiskie said, “But
that’s no my fault!“ M. Dempsey said, “Let’s not talk about ultimately fault, but let’s talk about responsibility. It’s ultimately your responsibility. It’s not your neighbor’s responsibility. It’s not our responsibility. The burden of proof on you to come and show that you aren‘t going to harm the wetlands. We’re in a bad situation here because the wetlands have already been disturbed that weren’t supposed to be disturbed. So, we could go ’round and ’round. We can’t go back in history. All we can do is do what needs to be done now. And that is, have the wetlands flagged, so everybody knows where they are, so there’ll be no argument. Then we have to put in to a list of conditions what we want you to do to put the wetlands back, at least within the 25’ buffer zone to what they were.”
M. Clisbee said that the report ConCom has from Hancock was done after everything the work was done and his report is based on observation. Observation after everything had been stripped out of there. J. Stewart said it still won’t change the wetland area. J. Moll said the question is truly what is wetlands boundaries? Where to they begin and end? Because all of the soils have been replaced, the only way to make that determination is to examine the soils.
J. Moll said he understands his (J. McComskie’s) frustration, but it’s his obligation to do it right. The fact that he didn’t do it right, doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have to go back and do it right, now. J. McComiskie said on his behalf, he came here to do it right. He said he spoke to everybody here to do it right. He said he was here three times. He said he has it in writing. Then, they went to state, because there was a state form that needed to be filed that he did not know had to be filed. When they went to the state and everybody complained because the crap ran downhill and everybody went “wooh”, now it’s all dumped back and it’s my fault. It’s not my fault. I came to you in guidance. M.
Dempsey said we’re not talking about fault. J. McComiskie said, “Well, somebody here is. I’m going to have to go dig something up.” M. Dempsey said, “If it was fault, John, we would be fining you. We’re not fining you. We haven’t even discussed fining once in our minutes. We could be fining you today, $300 per day, since back in June.” J. McComiskie asked how that works when he came to do the right thing. M. Dempsey said, “That’s why we’re not giving you a fine. Because you misunderstood the direction and advice that you got.” Jim Stewart said what Hancock gave him was misdirection too. M. Dempsey said, “Our note to you from T. Grim was not clear and you misunderstood it. So, you thought when T. Grim said you could remove tires and take away the trash, in what you call “renovate” the yard, that meant
getting a bulldozer in there and digging down 25’ into the no-disturb zone. Frankly, I don’t understand how you could misinterpret it that badly, but okay, we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Again, it doesn’t matter. We’re going to erase all that and we’re going to pretend that you’re coming here fully cognizant that you have to take responsibility to put your land back the way it was at least within the 25’ buffer zone.”
M. Dempsey said, “Let’s assume that what Mr. Hancock said is correct. He’s saying that the edge of the brook is the edge of the wetlands. Then, what we’re saying is 25’ from that brook into your yard needs to be restored to what it was.” C. McKee said for the record, she disagrees that that’s the edge of the wetlands. J. McComiskie said 50’ is topsoil. All the loam that was there is still there. M. Clisbee said what was done with it was that it was all pushed back in a pile and then multiple, multiple truckloads of fill was brought in.
R. Johnson said, “Quoting you, there was 4 feet of fill added to bring it up to grade.“ (Too many talking). “No, this was a big swamp and he couldn’t operate his machinery in there to take down the trees because the trucks from the guy he had to cut down the tree were getting stuck. So, it was a big swamp ’til you filled it in and brought it up 4 feet. To quote you, 4 feet to bring it up to the level of the road. You can’t do that in a wetlands. I mean, you know better. You just thought you could get away with it. Unfortunately…” (Too many talking out of turn to decipher).J. McComiskie said where he was doing the filling was over 140’-120’ from that brook. (Too many talking out of turn to decipher).
M. Dempsey said we have enough comments.
J. Moll asked to make one more comment as to the size of the trees that were removed and to what is being proposed. He said the trees that were removed were significant in size. M. Clisbee showed the Board
“before” pictures of the trees that J. McComiskie cut down. J. McComiskie said, “That’s my property.” (Too many talking out of turn to decipher).
M. Dempsey asked the Commission members first, if they were happy with Hancock’s report? C. McKee said the report is insufficient because I‘ve never come across a wetlands scientist whose opening comments aren‘t, “This is the area I‘ve flagged as wetlands.” M. Dempsey would like J. McComiskie to go back to Hancock and request a plot plan with wetlands delineation with 25, 50 and 100’ buffer lines on it. M. Dempsey asked the Commission if we’re happy with the judgment that the wetlands end at stream? C. McKee said no. C. McKee said the soils need to be tested. She read from Hancock’s report aloud. The ConCom asked J. McComiskie to submit the following:
1. The 25, 50, 100’ buffer lines delineated with flags and mapped out with soil testing and scientific data to back it up to prove where the borders are.
2. ConCom would like 25’ of the no-disturbed zone be restored (meaning back to where it was). A plan for restoring the 25’ no-disturb zone. Meaning he has to come back with proof of elevation (grading), the wetlands species on the ground, and any trees within 25’, best estimation of what they were.
J. McComiskie said he didn’t think there were 25’ trees there. R. Johnson said there were weeping willows. (Too many talking out of turn to decipher) (abutters arguing about the size of trees here). J. Moll asked how to make sure status quo is maintained. That there will be no more cutting within the buffer zone. M. Dempsey said we asked at the last meeting that no more work be done within the area. J. McComiskie asked no backhoes, no tractors, no whatever? M. Dempsey said right, we don’t even want you to step foot 25’. J. McComiskie said he’d put an orange stripe right across it. M. Dempsey told him not to do that. He said it’s better off if he doesn’t touch it. He said he has no reason to go into
the 25’ zone. J. McComiskie said he’d put a mark with a tape measure 26’ feet so he won’t go over it by accident. J. Moll said he’s already been warned about that and unfortunately he’s disregarded it. J. Termini said we don’t have a permanent engineer on staff to police the town. We do our best by monitoring it and relying on abutters. J. Moll said he admitted on the record that he worked within the 20’ buffer zone. J. McComiskie said he mowed the grass. (Too many talking out of turn to decipher). C. McKee said no disturb means no disturb. No mowing, no cutting, no walking, no clipping, no pulling the weeds, no disturb means you only look at it.
M. Dempsey said ConCom does not want him to do anything within 100’ buffer zone until we decide on the Notice of Intent. C. McKee said it’s because we don’t really know where the boundary is. M. Dempsey said ConCom does not allow people to work until we issue an Order. M. Dempsey told him no, non-hand machinery within the whole 100’ buffer zone until ConCom issues Orders of Conditions. J. McComiskie asked how long it takes to get the OOC. C. McKee said it depends on how long it takes Mr. Hancock to come back with the information that we need.
J. McComiskie asked how to file an actual complaint against his neighbor with the Conservation Commission? Because the people who are complaining about me, I’d like to complain about? They’ve all dug, poured concrete fences right next to skunk cabbage and they put a swimming pool right next to the same brook that…” (Too many talking to decipher). “You need to walk it. How could they walk out into the middle of skunk cabbage, dig fence poles, put concrete and chain-link fence right through the middle of skunk cabbage. And that’s what they did. They’ve got a gate going from their property to my property with wheelbarrow tracks dumping the crap.” (Too many talking to decipher.)
J. McComiskie and the abutters complained and argued loudly. M. Dempsey ejected everybody from the hearing at 9:15 pm.
This hearing is continued until October 19, 2005 at Veasey Park.
M. Dempsey made a motion to end the meeting at 9:40 pm. C. McKee 2nd. All in favor. Unanimous.
Respectfully submitted,
Lori Felch
Administrative Consultant
|
